1980's Breakdown of the World Orders

[semiotic_pirate]

1st, 2nd, and 3rd world country labels are relics from the Cold War.

The first world were democratic capitalist countries that were industrialized. NATO was the biggest collection of these countries

The second world were Communist, industrialized countries. The Warsaw pact is the biggest collection of these countries

The Third world were non-aligned countries that were not industrialized. Basically the third world was the battleground for the Soviet Union and the US fighting for converts to their ideology. The Cold War was fought for control of these countries either by military conquest, or political influence.

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Having a difference of opinion in a previous post as to the disposition of China. In referring to it in Cold-War Era terms, it is a 2nd World nation. Because it was (oh, still is!) an industrialized nation. Industrialized nations can build things such as factories and power plants without too much trouble, when compared directly to non-industrialized nations.

China just experienced a massive earthquake. One of the ways we get updates about this is all the people in China that are blogging, Twittering, and Flickering about what's going on in their neck of the woods.

And, isn't China like one of the biggest industrial espionage nations out there? Can't use that stolen technology information if you don't have the industrial capacity to make home-grown versions.

Am I losing my mind? Should I accept China being called 3rd world just because they aren't democratic or as up to date on having a clean, environmentally responsible to the planet political stance? It's not like I am comparing them to Switzerland or something... I just think that they could build a cellulose-to-ethanol plant if they really wanted to.

Opinions wanted on this topic. What do you think?

Comments

[stardragonca.livejournal.com]

In contemporary terms:
First world:Developed nations.
Second world: Other industrialised nations.
Third world:Other nations.

First world:Needs democracy that works better.
Second World:Needs democracy that works.
Third world:Needs democracy.

*waves*

[semiotic-pirate.livejournal.com]

So, in your opinion, where falls China? It is obvious to me, given your remark, but I am hoping for a definitive answer.

Re: *waves back*

[stardragonca.livejournal.com]

They are at about a 1920s Russia level, industrially. Less so,in terms of infra-structure.Even less so in terms of business culture.(Quality Control is what?)
Watch the PR nightmare that the Summer Olympics is going to be.
(I have a 'mutual friend' who was just there-Beijing, Shanghai, Canton, plus completely different Hong Kong-doing technical work for hir employer's clients. Without violating the sanctity of the F-Lock,it was,shall we say,most informative.)
I find that it helps to think of counties,not merely in terms of position,but in terms of vector. Where is this country going,how quickly,and what is likely to happen to them along the way.

Re: *waves back*

[semiotic-pirate.livejournal.com]

Curiosity here: Would we have referred to Russia in the 1920's as "third world" I wonder?

I am aghast that the Summer Olympics are going to be held in China. Part of me wonders if the committee did it to give China an incentive to clean up... and I also wonder if the committee has every located an Olympiad in a third world country. My guess is no. That question is touched on here (http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/36767).

Re: *waves back*

[stardragonca.livejournal.com]

Well,the term obviously had not come into use yet, obviously, but that is not what you are asking. I think pre-revolutionary Tsarist Russian, which certainly had substantial foreign capital driven industrialisation, certainly could be described that way,and the Revolution did not change that with any great rapidity, so yes.
In post-Cold War terms, early Soviet Russia was third world.

The IOC have never given the Games to a third world country before. Now they have,and it's going to be a right cock-up.
I have no idea why they did this. I assume Beijing offered better bribes than Toronto. Yeah,I'm that cynical.

Re: *waves back*

[stardragonca.livejournal.com]

Obviously,I used the word obviously,obviously too much.
Erg.

Alliteration

[semiotic-pirate.livejournal.com]

Obviously. You must have, although, obviously, I was oblivious to your over-use of the word obvious.

Re: Alliteration

[stardragonca.livejournal.com]

There is not enough caffeine in this world...

Re: *waves*

[stardragonca.livejournal.com]

Sorry. Didn't actually answer your question. Third world. Military strength,and space program notwithstanding.
In the twenty-first century,remember,people with even still an essentially Neolithic local economy can have access to,for example,cell phones.

Re: *waves*

[semiotic-pirate.livejournal.com]

See. For some reason, when you answer, it doesn't seem confrontational.

I still don't see how it can be termed third world, even with such a dichotomy existing between rural and city dwellers.

Thank you for joining the discussion!

Re: *waves*

[stardragonca.livejournal.com]

Heh. I think non-confrontational discussion is a Canadian strong-point. We assume that there is always going to be legitimate opposition to any point of view. In fact,our form of government requires it.
Back to the matter at hand. Where would you put India?

Completely and Utterly Off Topic

[stardragonca.livejournal.com]

Great icon! Cute-and-in-control.

Re: Completely and Utterly Off Topic

[semiotic-pirate.livejournal.com]

Thanks! I love finding larger images on the web (usually desktops) and turning them into icons. This one is one of my favorites.