In the Navy!
Nov. 13th, 2004 11:10 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
semiotic_pirateThe following excerpt was posted on a community I follow and participate in (feminist) and I just thought I would share it (and my comment made on the post) with everyone who so dutifully reads my blog. The bold is the person who posted the stuff to the community, the italics is the stuff (s)he found elsewhere, regular script is my comment.
Side Note: Just went to see The Incredibles again... I love being able to go to the movies for free!! And no, pJammer, I didn't write the number down, sorry. However, check out their official site for lots of kewl downloadable stuff! www.incredibles.com
Enjoy!
Womeeeeen in the army!
I just came across these little gems on another community. Since I'm not sure if direct linking is allowed, I'll just paste the posts here.
"A few observations: (Sorry, at work right now and do not have any cites handy.)
1. It has been conclusively demonstrated that all-female units don't work. I *think* the Canadians were the most recent to try this, but I'm not sure.
2. Too many women in the Navy have an attitude problem, which is truly unfortunate for those who are there to do a job and do it well. This attitude problem varies from "I'm female and therefore speshl" to "OMG he sed a dirty joke; I'm being oppressed" to "I can fuck my way to promotion" to the truly disgusting "If I get caught fucking around I'll just yell rape". I'm not saying that most female sailors do this, but enough that many others get tarred with the same brush.
3. The political climate of the United States is that Political Correctness must be observed - so instead of the women receiving "get over yourself" training, our sailors (and soldiers, for that matter) are getting "sensitivity training".
4. A submarine is a very closed environment - rape is going to be an issue; one of two issues, actually - either "I'm filing rape charges on # of people" or "# number of people are down with crippling injuries because they tried to rape me". Either one is bad for military discipline.
In this case I don't think it has as much to do with babies as it does with primal hardwiring. I think Robin Williams probably said it best when he summed up male thinking with "If we can't fuck it, we'll kill it."
The more generic issue of women in combat arms positions in the military (things like tanks crews/infantry/mortars) has definitely been demonstrated not to work in the Israeli Army, when tank units were disengaging the enemy against orders to back up a female tank unit under fire - even though the female tank unit was in no real danger at the time.
There's a lot of fairly complex social issues that generally boil down to "The 18-22 year old males who wind up in military service aren't very well equipped to having females around", which I generally attribute to testosterone poisoning when I'm being snide."
And then ....
" expect women in the military to know the difference between harrassment and a joke.
I expect women in the military to not go out of their way to get knocked up in the face of an upcoming deployment, and then have an abortion a month after the ship pulls out.
I expect women in the military to not perform oral sex on their superiors to ensure good evals.
I expect women in the military to do their goddamned jobs, and not spend time on watch fucking behind the closet door.
But I suppose girls will be girls?
Further, the military recruits for a particular mindset. You can have mindless obedience and channeled aggression, or you can have a "kindler, gentler military". Pick one.
Further, I believe that men in the military who commit rape should be hanged, as should their immediate commanding officer. Sexual harrassment should be met with public floggings. I'm not saying this is one-sided.
What I am saying is that it's a massive clusterfuck, and an expensive one, to sort out - and it will be expensive not only in money, but in the initial desegregation of male/female assignments it's going to cost in personal pain.
And specifically to answer 'B' women should receive get over yourself training because they frequently refuse to do so. "Oooh, I can't work in the motor pool, I might break a naaaaiil." No, not *all* women need it. But the ones who do are giving the hard workers a really bad name. It may not be fair, but that's realism.
So heading back to women on submarines as the original topic -
There are too many fucking idiots to make it practicable either in money or in military discipline to put women on subs, and they do come in both genders. In an ideal world, we wouldn't need segregated berthing for males and females, and females would be unconditionally safe from worrying about being raped in berthing, or in the head. Sadly, I have yet to find that alternate reality, so we have to deal with the one that's here. And the one that's here now says the risk to the individual female sailor on a sub is too high. It has little to do with pregnancy and nothing to do with babies."
okay, don't have time enough for a full diatribe against this post...
All-female units have worked in the past. Unfortunately, in our current society we will surely be unlikely to follow in the footsteps of the Spartans. We rear our women from birth to be submissive, and to use sex itself as a weapon.
The only reason why women in today's military think they're special is because they are treated that way. Take away the double standard, treat her like any other soldier during training... That attitude will disappear. Teach male soldiers to treat their fellow soldiers like autonomous adults (regardless of sex/gender/whatever) who can make their own decisions about anything, someone who follows orders just like they do, and their resentments will disappear. (It is basically these resentments that set up the mind-set that gets a woman raped by her fellow soldiers.)
Allow women in the military easy access to birth control and abortion - have it paid for by the military - and make it not such an easy out so that those who would use pregnancy as an excuse won't join. If they get pregnant during initial training, fine, have her stick with the unit through all it's training cycles until she delivers, have the child in an on-base creche and have her finish training. In the case of shipping out, same thing, if she wants an abortion, she can have one (but not be pressured into it) otherwise, when the child is born, she is shipped out to join her unit. Some would say that both male and females should go on birth control when they join and have to get permission to be fertile. Like a condition of the job. (I know I will hear flack from this, but I would not have been against this when I was in.)
If females weren't trained from birth to act like women.. and if males weren't trained from birth to resent powerful women... etc... There are societies out there - one specifically that was found recently - where there was NO CONCEPT of rape. The men were hunters, the women gatherers... There was no rape, they didn't even know what it was. Hence, it can be deduced that rape is a LEARNED behavior.
The woman who gave a blow job to her superior for the good evaluation was probably told that if she didn't, she'd get a bad evaluation. (coercion.) On the other hand, sex should not be a bargaining chip... we are sexual animals, it's going to happen. Again, this is a matter of SOCIALLY LEARNED behavior. We encourage females from birth to use their body's to get what they want.
Have you ever seen Starship Troopers? Has anyone ever studied what kind of society would produce men and women with that kind of mentality? (not that I'm for the totalitarian type of government that it had but it did have some really good points too.) That might solve some of the military's problems. (And corporal punishment is not only about the pain, it is about the public humiliation factor.)
So,, about women on submarines (or any other vessel cut off from "civilization") there shouldn't be any barriers of entry for females in the military. (going for an economic analogy) In order for there to be perfect competition and therefore a reliable meritocracy in promoting worthy material... One cannot restrict (or as the old saying goes, repress) anyone's right to choose a vocation.
anyways... started this rant at ten this morning, went out, just got home... I'm just going to spell check and post it. Hope it doesn't sound too disjointed.
Side Note: Just went to see The Incredibles again... I love being able to go to the movies for free!! And no, pJammer, I didn't write the number down, sorry. However, check out their official site for lots of kewl downloadable stuff! www.incredibles.com
Enjoy!
Womeeeeen in the army!
I just came across these little gems on another community. Since I'm not sure if direct linking is allowed, I'll just paste the posts here.
"A few observations: (Sorry, at work right now and do not have any cites handy.)
1. It has been conclusively demonstrated that all-female units don't work. I *think* the Canadians were the most recent to try this, but I'm not sure.
2. Too many women in the Navy have an attitude problem, which is truly unfortunate for those who are there to do a job and do it well. This attitude problem varies from "I'm female and therefore speshl" to "OMG he sed a dirty joke; I'm being oppressed" to "I can fuck my way to promotion" to the truly disgusting "If I get caught fucking around I'll just yell rape". I'm not saying that most female sailors do this, but enough that many others get tarred with the same brush.
3. The political climate of the United States is that Political Correctness must be observed - so instead of the women receiving "get over yourself" training, our sailors (and soldiers, for that matter) are getting "sensitivity training".
4. A submarine is a very closed environment - rape is going to be an issue; one of two issues, actually - either "I'm filing rape charges on # of people" or "# number of people are down with crippling injuries because they tried to rape me". Either one is bad for military discipline.
In this case I don't think it has as much to do with babies as it does with primal hardwiring. I think Robin Williams probably said it best when he summed up male thinking with "If we can't fuck it, we'll kill it."
The more generic issue of women in combat arms positions in the military (things like tanks crews/infantry/mortars) has definitely been demonstrated not to work in the Israeli Army, when tank units were disengaging the enemy against orders to back up a female tank unit under fire - even though the female tank unit was in no real danger at the time.
There's a lot of fairly complex social issues that generally boil down to "The 18-22 year old males who wind up in military service aren't very well equipped to having females around", which I generally attribute to testosterone poisoning when I'm being snide."
And then ....
" expect women in the military to know the difference between harrassment and a joke.
I expect women in the military to not go out of their way to get knocked up in the face of an upcoming deployment, and then have an abortion a month after the ship pulls out.
I expect women in the military to not perform oral sex on their superiors to ensure good evals.
I expect women in the military to do their goddamned jobs, and not spend time on watch fucking behind the closet door.
But I suppose girls will be girls?
Further, the military recruits for a particular mindset. You can have mindless obedience and channeled aggression, or you can have a "kindler, gentler military". Pick one.
Further, I believe that men in the military who commit rape should be hanged, as should their immediate commanding officer. Sexual harrassment should be met with public floggings. I'm not saying this is one-sided.
What I am saying is that it's a massive clusterfuck, and an expensive one, to sort out - and it will be expensive not only in money, but in the initial desegregation of male/female assignments it's going to cost in personal pain.
And specifically to answer 'B' women should receive get over yourself training because they frequently refuse to do so. "Oooh, I can't work in the motor pool, I might break a naaaaiil." No, not *all* women need it. But the ones who do are giving the hard workers a really bad name. It may not be fair, but that's realism.
So heading back to women on submarines as the original topic -
There are too many fucking idiots to make it practicable either in money or in military discipline to put women on subs, and they do come in both genders. In an ideal world, we wouldn't need segregated berthing for males and females, and females would be unconditionally safe from worrying about being raped in berthing, or in the head. Sadly, I have yet to find that alternate reality, so we have to deal with the one that's here. And the one that's here now says the risk to the individual female sailor on a sub is too high. It has little to do with pregnancy and nothing to do with babies."
okay, don't have time enough for a full diatribe against this post...
All-female units have worked in the past. Unfortunately, in our current society we will surely be unlikely to follow in the footsteps of the Spartans. We rear our women from birth to be submissive, and to use sex itself as a weapon.
The only reason why women in today's military think they're special is because they are treated that way. Take away the double standard, treat her like any other soldier during training... That attitude will disappear. Teach male soldiers to treat their fellow soldiers like autonomous adults (regardless of sex/gender/whatever) who can make their own decisions about anything, someone who follows orders just like they do, and their resentments will disappear. (It is basically these resentments that set up the mind-set that gets a woman raped by her fellow soldiers.)
Allow women in the military easy access to birth control and abortion - have it paid for by the military - and make it not such an easy out so that those who would use pregnancy as an excuse won't join. If they get pregnant during initial training, fine, have her stick with the unit through all it's training cycles until she delivers, have the child in an on-base creche and have her finish training. In the case of shipping out, same thing, if she wants an abortion, she can have one (but not be pressured into it) otherwise, when the child is born, she is shipped out to join her unit. Some would say that both male and females should go on birth control when they join and have to get permission to be fertile. Like a condition of the job. (I know I will hear flack from this, but I would not have been against this when I was in.)
If females weren't trained from birth to act like women.. and if males weren't trained from birth to resent powerful women... etc... There are societies out there - one specifically that was found recently - where there was NO CONCEPT of rape. The men were hunters, the women gatherers... There was no rape, they didn't even know what it was. Hence, it can be deduced that rape is a LEARNED behavior.
The woman who gave a blow job to her superior for the good evaluation was probably told that if she didn't, she'd get a bad evaluation. (coercion.) On the other hand, sex should not be a bargaining chip... we are sexual animals, it's going to happen. Again, this is a matter of SOCIALLY LEARNED behavior. We encourage females from birth to use their body's to get what they want.
Have you ever seen Starship Troopers? Has anyone ever studied what kind of society would produce men and women with that kind of mentality? (not that I'm for the totalitarian type of government that it had but it did have some really good points too.) That might solve some of the military's problems. (And corporal punishment is not only about the pain, it is about the public humiliation factor.)
So,, about women on submarines (or any other vessel cut off from "civilization") there shouldn't be any barriers of entry for females in the military. (going for an economic analogy) In order for there to be perfect competition and therefore a reliable meritocracy in promoting worthy material... One cannot restrict (or as the old saying goes, repress) anyone's right to choose a vocation.
anyways... started this rant at ten this morning, went out, just got home... I'm just going to spell check and post it. Hope it doesn't sound too disjointed.
